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tv   Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  July 23, 2017 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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it was said that this is a man who survived the hanoi hilton. i think he's got a long time ahead. we look forward to having him back here in washington. thanks for being with us. ♪ ♪ chris: i'm chris wallace. a shake-up inside the white house. six months in, where does the trump agenda stand, and will it be overwhelmed by the russia investigation? ♪ ♪ >> i think we're going to get the health care done. i also think we're going to get tax reform done. and whatever else is on the president's agenda, we're going to work very, very hard, very studiously here to make it happen. chris: we'll discuss the president's plans and his ongoing relationship with the media with the new white house communications director, anthony scaramucci. then, special counsel robert mueller expands his investigation, looking into possible russian ties to trump businesses as the president criticizes his attorney general and warns the investigators.
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>> let's go back to what the purpose of the investigation was, russian interference in our election. >> sessions should have never recused himself. >> i have the honor of serving as attorney general, and i plan to continue to do so as long as that is appropriate. chris: we'll discuss the latest developments on russia with republican senator john thune and democratic senator ben carden. plus, the president's legislative goals are stalled as repeal and replace creates a log jam in congress. we'll ask our sunday panel if senate republicans can bring their health care bill back from the dead. all right now on "fox news sunday." ♪ chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. president trump has hit the six month mark with his push to repeal and replace obamacare stalled in the senate and informations expanding -- investigations expanding into possible links with the russians. little wonder then the president
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has decided to shake up his white house staff. joining me now to discuss the trump agenda moving forward is the new white house communications director, anthony scaramucci. anthony, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> it's great to be here, chris, thank you. good morning. chris: let's talk about how you see your new job. here's what you had to say on friday. >> i think there's been, at times, a disconnect between the way we see the president and how much we love the president and the way some of you perhaps see the president. chris: so how do you close what you call that disconnect? >> well, listen, i actually don't think that's the hard part. i think the hard part is just to get reorganized and figure out one of the first things i want to do is we've got to get the leaks stopped, chris. i know it's washington, so it's impossible to stop all of them, but i think what's going on right now is a high level of unprofessionalism, and it's not serving the president. so my three simple things is i would like to reset the culture inside the coms department so that people recognize i'm
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actually there to serve them, and they're going to be working with me, not for me. that's a very big distiption. and that all of -- distinction. and that all of us are there to serve the president of the united states and his agenda. so first thing for me is i want to hit a cultural reset button. second thing is we've got to get the leaks stopped. if we don't, i am a business person, and so i will take dramatic action to stop those leaks. and hen the third thing is -- then the third thing is i'll be traveling with the president this week, and we're going to focus and refine the messaging from the white house. he's one of the most effective communicators that's ever been born, and we're going to make sure that we get that message out directly to the american people. and i think that arbitrage spread, the gap between how certain people think of him and how i see him or say, like, someone like ivanka sees him, that will start the narrow soon. chris: i want to pick up on the leaks. you say you're willing to take drastic action the stop them. now, these are leaks both coming from inside the white house and also from what's called the deep
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state, people in the bureaucracy, particularly the intelligence agencies or law enforcement. what kind of drastic action? >> i'm going to be very, very clear with people. as far as i'm concerned, that staff has amnesty. we'll see how they do with me at the helm. if the leaks don't stop, i'm going to pare down the staff because it's just not right, chris. i think it's not fair to the president. it's actually not fair to america or the people in the government. i'm not going to be able to stop the leaks or in the intergovernmental agencies and all that other stuff. that's a whole different ball of wax. but something's going on inside the white house that the president does not like, and we're going to fix it. chris: well, you say pare down the staff. i mean, this isn't coming just from the communications team. are you saying that you've been given carte blanche, have been given authority by the president -- >> no, i'm just focused on the communications team. as far as i'm concerned, it's a new start for everybody in that
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team, and everybody in that team can stay as long as they follow the protocol of not leaking. because at the end of the day, the president's super upset about the leaks. it's unprofessional, and so you're asking me what the first steps are, that's going to be one of my first steps. chris: do you believe that the mainstream media deliberately puts out fake news about this president? >> there is some fake news, unfortunately. when you say the mainstream media, i think that's a very broad statement. so what i'd like to say and i'd like to believe that there's still a level of objectivity in the mainstream media. but unfortunately, there are specific individuals that do stretch stories or do fabricate things. i've been the victim of it myself, and so it's definitely there, chris. i don't think we can dial that down, but we can use the mechanisms of social media and the president's presence in social media to hop over that if necessary. but what i would say to you is that the good news here is that it's a fresh start for
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everybody. i certainly want to engage the mainstream media. i expect that they're going to want to hold me and the white house accountable, but we're going to sort of want to hold hem accountable too. so i'm hoping there'll be symmetry in that relationship. chris: you say that there are certain individuals, certain outlets. you want to call any of them out by name? >> no, no. again, i think it's more specific to specific stories, for that matter. and so it's not necessary to call anybody out by name. i'm hoping to create an era of a new good feeling with the media, give everybody a fresh start. let's see if we can reset this and create a more positive mojo among everybody. and again, like i said, we have a story that we want to tell. it's a phenomenal story for the american people. there's a policy agenda in place that i think is phenomenal for the american people. if you look at the last six months, i think there's been some distortion in terms of how successful we've actually been, and i think we want to clear that up.
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and i think the president made that clear in his press release on friday that we're doing very, very well. lots of the american people are super happy, and we just need to close that gap, if you will, and make that connection more forcefully. chris: well, one of the areas where the president has said there's been a lot of fake news has been in the russia investigation and the potential for a scandal there. president trump reportedly wanted you because you're a tough street fighter like he is. is he putting together a war staff in the white house to take on the various russia investigations? >> well, listen, i sort of see it as two-pronged as it related to that. we want to refine our rapid response team, in some ways we want to deescalate things and have there be a level of diplomacy. in other ways we want it to be very hard-hitting and war-like. so it's sort of a blend of those two things, chris. but as it relates specifically to russia, you know, there's certain things that i can talk about from inside the white
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house, and there's certain things i'm not allowed the talk about. and i really haven't been briefed yet by the white house counsel as to what i and cannot talk about -- here's what i'll say to you if you don't mind me saying this -- chris: no, go ahead. >> i worked intensely on that campaign, and i think that the russia situation is completely overblown. i was falsely accused of things related to russia, i know other things are being falsely accused of things relating to russia. and i'm confident tomorrow when jared kushner speaks -- and i'll keep my fingers crossed in saying this to the you -- it'll probably be the last time he has to talk about russia. for me, i'd like to get this behind us. one of the things i do not like about washington, i sort of feel like it's scandals incorporated down in washington, that we have to make up things about each other, chris, so that we can personally destroy each other to make us less effective as public servants. i don't like it at all -- chris: let me interrupt for a minute. you'll learn we do this here in
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washington. [laughter] on the specific question, because you say that, you know, part of it is diplomacy, part of it is hard-hitting. do you see anything wrong with going after the special counsel and his team when it comes to possible conflicts of interest or when it comes to your feeling or the president's feeling that he is expanding the scope of his investigation too far into the president's business affairs? >> i want the president to be the president, and i want him to express the full nature of his personality. corey lewandowski used to say early on in the campaign let trump be trump. it's a little disrespectful now because he's the president, so let's let the president be the president. if he wants to talk about things like that, i'm not going to want to stop him or even be able to the stop him. i want to be able to help aid and abet his agenda. for me, i have a different personality style from the president in some ways, in other ways we're very similar. i just want there to be fairness and objectivity. and so let's see how the whole thing rolls out.
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but my feeling about this thing is that it's overblown, it's completely unfair, it's designed the take people off message and off of our agenda, and is we're going to get people on our message, on our agenda. it's just that simple. chris: let me ask one last russia question, then i want to talk about agenda. in a tweet this week, the president said this, this weekend, he asserted his complete power to pardon. question, if he and his people have done nothing wrong, why even talk about pardons? >> you see, this is -- again, this is one of those things about washington, and it's the convolution and the nature of things. i'm in the oval office with the president last week, we're talking about that. he says he brought that up, he says, but he doesn't have to be pardoned. there's nobody around him that has to be pardoned. he was just making the statement about the power of pardon. and so now all of the speculation and all spin is, oh, he's going to pardon himself. the president does not need to
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pardon himself, and the reason he doesn't need to is he hasn't done anything wrong. chris: okay. >> so for me, we can micro-analyze every one of the president's tweets, that's fine, we can go in that direction. but i want to get it back on the president's agenda. this is a jobs president, this is a president that's going to help middle class families, lower middle class families. you want to talk about gaps, chris, there is a wide income gap that me heats do not -- many elites do not feel, but the president feels it and members of his staff feel it, and people in the middle of america feel it. we're going to put policies together that close that gap. if people want to talk about these nonsensical scandals, i'll let them do that. but i'm going to be missile-locked on focusing on the president's agenda and helping people to to understand the president the way i know him and the way i love him. crust chris i've got to ask you one last question, and i hesitate to do that -- [laughter] but does the president still have full confidence in his attorney general?
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he has had some tough things to say about jeff sessions this weekend and his decision to recuse, and then there's this new story in "the washington post" that the russian ambassador told, supposedly told his superiors that he had talked with sessions about campaign matters with sessions. does the president still have confidence in sessions? >> see, this is something i think that's super important. a question like that i want to leave that for the president and attorney general sessions to talk about themselves. my guess is, is that he's in the seat and so, therefore, the president sill has confidence in him. -- still has confidence in him. i'm sure, like all of us, there's things that attorney general sessions has done that the president doesn't like, and let them have that conversation amongst themselves, and hopefully we can fix it. but, chris, here's the thing. the good news about president trump is that he wears a lot on his sleeve, we know exactly where he comes from and where he stands on things. the reason why the american people love him and the reason why he became president is because he's a, you know, wears
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his heart on his sleeve type of person, very caring but also is a good business executive. he sort of tells people how he feels. chris: all right. >> again, another thing i don't like about washington with, if i don't like something that you're saying and i put out a tweet and say i don't like chris wallace, all of a sudden you and i have to be mortal enemies for the rest of our lyes. i don't think that's how it works in american business, so we sort of need to stop doing that in the political system. chris: okay. speaking of tweets, in the time we have left let's do a lightning round. quick questions, quick answers, anthony. you have been deleting some old tweets over the past couple of days, you say, and quite understandably because they were a distraction. they were when you weren't working for donald trump, now you are. but all in this stuff lives forever, and i want to put one of them up. in 2012 you tweeted, we, the usa, has 5% of the world's population by 50% of the world's guns. enough is enough. it is just common sense to apply more controls.
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question: do you still believe that? >> well, okay. so the answer to the question is i'm a pro-second amendment person. my dad was a hunter. i've got no problem with that. what i was worried about in 2012 in urban centers if you don't have a little level of gun control, it could lead to more violence. but the truth be told -- and this is the reason why i deleted the tweets, chris -- it's a total distraction, it's total nonsense. when i made the decision to take this job, my politics and my political ideas do not matter at all. what matters is that i am subordinating all of that to the president's agenda. ed koch, who lived in this great city, had a great line. if you believe in nine out of the twelve things that i'm for, you should vote for me. the if you believe twelve out of the twelve things, you need a psychiatrist. [laughter] chris: all right, now, let me pick up, because you're blowing the whole idea of the lightning round. >> all right.
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but that's a super loaded question for a 15-second answer. chris: okay. >> keep going, chris. go ahead. chris: here's another one. you talked on friday about that famous incident in 2015, i know you're going to shake your head, where you called president trump a hack politician. but i looked at the tape. it's actually much worse than that, anthony, so take a look. >> he's a hack politician -- >> you're in trouble now. >> he's probably going to make elizabeth warren his vice presidential nominee with comments like that. politicians don't want to go at trump because he's got a big mouth, and he's afraid he's going to light them up on fox news, but i'm not a politician. bring it. >> all right, so why is he resonating? why is he resonating? >> from queens county. bring it, donald. chris: bring it, donald. [laughter] so here's the question -- >> we're both new yorkers, by the way -- chris: here's the question. >> okay, give me the question. chris: mr. trump, president trump likes about you, you fight like him. >> hey, let me tell you something, he hit first.
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he called me from air force one yesterday on the way down to contributioning the aircraft carrier. he says you don't even remember the whole story. i said, what do you mean, sir? he said i brought you into my office, i'm thinking about running for president, you told me i wasn't running, which is true. this was way, way early. i told him i was going to sign up with scott walker because i needed a candidate -- chris: we're in a lightning round, get to the point. >> if you're showing a clip like that, you've got a chance to give -- give me a chance to explain myself. i'm a fighter. when he's hitting the hedge fund industry and that's my life blood, i'm hitting back. okay? he knows that, he respects that about me. we were laughing about that last night. but what i love about you guys, okay, is it's a three minute segment that i guess is going to be play for eternity. we should put it on the voyager spacecraft and send it interstellar. i love the guy. we're new yorkers. and this is my point, i want to finish my point. i love the guy. i have spent the last 18 months
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supporting him unyieldingly because he's a great person, and he's going to be a phenomenal -- he is a phenomenal president, and he's even going to be a better president. you're not allowed to fight a little bit amongst your friends? if you're not allowed to do that -- chris: am i not allowed to actually put that on? >> no, i love it. chris: i make you a promise, i will never play that clip again. >> you can play it again next week -- chris: no, i don't want to -- >> i'm totally fine with it. the point is, i'm a new yorker, he's a new yorker -- chris: i'm a new yorker too, so that makes three of us. >> god bless, but my point is we were laughing about it yesterday. i think john carl asked me about it at the press conference. every 15 seconds he reminds me, okay -- chris: one quick -- >> we're moving on. chris: 30 seconds to the answer this one. you have suggested, this was before you became communications director, maybe we'll put on a show, a white house show every morning, anchor desk on the north lawn to talk about the administration policies. are you serious?
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>> i've got to talk to the president about it. that was when i was brainstorming before i had an official job. here's what i would say to you in less than 30 seconds, we are going to reinvent the way we deliver information out of the white house, because the world has changed. i have in my pocket a radio studio, a television studio and a movie studio. the entire world has changed, and we need to rethink the way we're delivering our information. and so stay tuned. chris: anthony, thank you. thanks for your time. we hope to have you back often. >> great to be here. chris: up next, we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss what the white house shake-up says about where president trump wants to the go from here. ♪ ♪ whoooo. i enjoy the fresher things in life. fresh towels. fresh soaps. and of course,
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>> i love the president. i love the president. chris: it's time now for our sunday group. former republican congressman jason chaffetz who's now a fox news contributor, and welcome. columnist for the hill, juan williams. julie pace, washington bureau chief for the associated press and former national security council staffer gillian turner. well, julie, at the risk of repeating him, i love this new guy. [laughter] finally, the trump white house has a surrogate who talks like the boss. >> exactly. and i think that's what has a lot of trump loyalists and supporters happy with this pick. they feel like this is someone who understands the way the president communicates, who is going to have one mission and that's to serve the president, to promote his agenda. i know that sounds simple, that's what you're supposed to do in this job, but the reality is in this white house you've had a lot of different factions
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in there, and there's a lot of speculation every day about their true motivations, about what they're really there to do. and particularly in this coms shop -- chris: communications. >> -- you had a lot of people that came over from the republican national committee, an organization that while they were tacitly supporting trump in the general election, it was pretty clear they did not believe he was actually going to win. that has fueled a lot of the tension. and some of the things that anthony said in that interview would make me pretty nervous if i came from the rnc -- or. chris: and they were wrought over by -- brought over by reince priebus and sean spicer, and he's basically saying there's a new sheriff in town. >> exactly. chris: what do you think his aggressiveness says about the way the president is going to take on this russia investigation? >> well, i think it's something they're going to be dealing with for months or even years, and they have to figure out a strategy. they can be aggressive, they can take this head on every day, or -- and this is what a lot of republicans would prefer that they do -- they try to push a
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different agenda, try to focus more on health care, have president out there talking about it, focus on tax reform or infrastructure. that's where they've fallen down on this. they keep getting bogged down by russia, and they haven'ted had this ability to promote a different, more positive agenda. chris: speaking of getting tripped up and mixing your messages, i want to play some clips from the president's interview with "the new york times" this week. here is the president's take on his own attorney general. >> how do you take a job and then recuse yourself? if he would have recused himself before the job, i would have said thanks, jeff, but i can't, you know, i'm not going to take you. it's extremely unfair. and that's a mild word, to the president. chris: and here is the president on special counsel robert mueller's investigation. >> mueller is looking at your finances and your family's finances up related to russia. is that a red line? >> would that be a breach of what his actual -- >> i would say, yes. i would say, yes. chris: congressman chaffetz, is it a mistake for the president
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to take on sessions and mueller, or should he go after them aggressively? >> well, he's going to do what he's going to do. i mean, i think that's part of what's endearing to america, is the fact that he just lays it out the way that he should, the way that he wants to. i do think it was a mistake to have a special counsel. i don't think it's risen to that level. but nevertheless, it's in place, and i think he's going to have a very aggressive style going after him. chris: do you think that's smart to go after the prosecutors and try and undercut them? >> no, i don't. [laughter] i don't think that's necessarily the right way to do it, but it is the way the president's going to do it, and i think that's why he brought on anthony scaramucci. he speaks native trump, and he's going to convey that to the american people. chris: not only did attorney general sessions get a vote of confidence from the president, but he also has to deal with this new washington post story that i talked to anthony scaramucci about which reports that the russian ambassador was intercepted, electronic intercepts telling his superiors in moscow, in creme lip that he had discussions with sessions about campaign matters,
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something sessions flatly denied. >> let me be clear, i never had meetings with russian operatives or russian intermediaries about the trump campaign. chris: gillian, how much trouble is jeff sessions in, and with jared kushner testifying not once, but twice this week before congressional committees behind closed doors, how serious is the russia investigation at this point? >> the russian information, from my perspective, is growing more serious by the way. and to the point about the attorney general, his dealings with russian ambassador kislyak are the reason he recused himself from the investigation from the get go. so he did that voluntarily are, it's something the president has now said he resents. it was completely his decision to do that. and i would just say in terms of the attorney general and this ongoing investigation, there's really to build on a point julie made, there's really two models that the president can follow.
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this is something that steve hadley, president bush's national security adviser, captured brilliantly in may. he said there's two models here for the entire administration. there is the nixon/clinton model where you treat it as a criminal investigation, you lawyer up, you have your hand in the pot every day, you push back as hard as you can, or there is what he called the reagan model that he chose during iran contra which is you take a step back, you have respect for the process, and you let the chips ultimately fall where they may. the trump administration is clearly choosing the former model. they could still reverse course if they wanted to. and i think, certainly, they would be politically smarter for making that decision. chris: the, you know, it didn't work for nixon -- [laughter] it did work for clinton. >> yeah. but i think they both -- well, it worked for president clinton to the a certain extent. chris: well -- >> he stayed in office. chris: and he survived, and he rubbed up ken starr. let me move to you, juan, what
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do you think the president's various actions this week on scaramucci, on giving that surprising interview to "the new york times" on shaking up his legal team, the guy who was in charge, mark cat wits, no longer is. what do you think that tells you about where this president is right now? >> well, i think he's totally focused on the russia story. let's use a cultural term, the god father, he's going to the mattresses right now. he brings in scaramucci because he sees scaramucci as a guy who got an apology from cnn, got people fired at cnn -- chris: cnn did a story that said scaramucci was under investigation. there's no evidence that he was -- >> right. chris: -- and that's what followed. >> and then president trump, who had initially taken advice from his white house chief of staff not to bring in scaramucci, suddenly he's now fascinated with scaramucci because he's had success in this kind of street fight attitude. so you have that. but then the big surprise was, as you point out, "the new york times" interview to the go after his own attorney general.
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and you have to wonder about the subsequent leaks about the attorney general. it could be, given what he said about robert mueller and trying to discredit robert mueller who is the investigator, that he now thinks if i can get rid of sessions, i can get somebody over there who will fire mueller be make it easier for me as we go down that path. so i think what we are right now is we are on war footing. i mean, this is an explosive moment for the president, for the legal system, for the constitution. chris: i just want to ask you one quick question at the end of this segment, because i must say the thought occurred to me, on thursday you have the president basically saying i'm really unhappy with jeff sessions, and i wouldn't have appointed him. and the next day there is this leak of information -- [laughter] i see you smiling, about the fact that sessions may have misled everybody about what he talked to kislyak about. do you think, i mean -- obviously, the thought has occurred to me -- >> it has occurred to me and many other reporters. i'll just go with what my friends at the washington post said about the story is they
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have been working on this information since june. [laughter] chris: all right. >> and, chris, if the president thinks he's felt ire of the washington, d.c. firmament, fire the attorney general or the special counsel, and you will really feel the wrath. chris: you know what we're going to do, folks? i promise, we are now going to talk agenda. [laughter] we're going to take a break. coming up, the senate gets ready to vote on obamacare, but what will they be voting on? >> two key senators join us next. ♪ ♪ pain isn't always fair. i'm not going to let it change my life. aleve is proven stronger on pain than tylenol 8 hour. and only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just 1 pill. this is my pain, but i am stronger. aleve. all day strong. adult 7+ promotes alertness and mental sharpness in dogs 7 and older. (ray) the difference has been incredible. she is much more aware. she wants to learn things. (vo) purina pro plan bright mind. nutrition that performs.
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[kids cheering] [kids screaming] call the clown! parents aren't perfect but then they make us kraft mac & cheese and everything's good again. chris: a look outside the beltway at mount rushmore in keystone, south dakota. the senate holds a big vote this week on what to do about obamacare with major splits among republican members. meanwhile, other priorities like the budget, tax reform and raising the debt limit are stacking up like planes over an airport on a summer afternoon. joining me now to discuss the
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trump agenda from south dakota, the chair of the republican conference, senator john thune. and from baltimore, democratic senator ben carden. gentlemen, before we get to obamacare, i want to ask you all about an agreement that congressional leaders in both parties have apparently reached over the weekend about a bill to impose new sanctions on russia and to limit the president's ability to lift those sanctions. senator thune, is the president going to sign that bill? >> i believe he will, chris. the senate passed it 98-2. obviously, both senator cardin and i voted for that. the house has made some minor modifications. we included iran, they extended it to north korea. but this is a bill that will go to the president's desk, and he should sign it into law. chris: you say he should sign it, there has been some pushback from the administration. they don't like the idea that it limits his ability to conduct diplomacy by imposing sanctions and limiting his ability to lift them. >> well, that's true, but i think that in the end the
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administration will come to the conclusion that an overwhelming majority of congress has, and that is that we need to sanction russia for their meddling in the u.s. election. that, i think, will pass probably overor whenningly, again -- overwhelmingly, again, in the senate and with a veto-proof majority. so the president -- i think it's in his best interests to sign it, and i believe he will. of. chris: senator cardin, do you share your colleague's confidence the president will sign it, and what if he does veto it? >> well, chris, this is a very strong bill with. it imposes mandatory sanctions on russia, it provides for congressional review. if the president wants to wait or eliminate sanctions, it's very bipartisan. senator corker and i on the senate foreign relations committee drafted a good part of it. senator crapo and brown from the banking committee. it has broad support in the senate and in the house.
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if he vetoes a bill, we will override his veto. chris: let's turn to the big health care vote this week. here's what senate democratic leader chuck schumer said. >> we democrats don't know what our republican friends are planning to vote on next week. i'll bet many republicans don't know yet either. chris: senator thune, as the number three republican in the senate, do you know what you're going to be voting on next week? is it repeal or is it repeal and replace? >> it's voting to get on the bill, chris. it's voting to open the debate. we can't change the status quo which is skyrocketing premiums and collapsing markets out there for way too many americans unless we get on the bill. so the vote will be at some point week to proceed to consideration of the bill. it's a procedural vote at which point all amendments become in order. there'll be an unlimited opportunity for democrats, for ben carden and some of his colleagues to offer their amendments, for republican colleagues to offer theirs to
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try and improve and strengthen the bill. but you can't do that unless you get on the bill. so the first vote, which will occur sometime this week, will be to proceed to that consideration of that legislation and to at least have a debate where we can have an open amendment process and give people a chance to be heard -- chris: without getting too far into the weeds, i know when you get on the bill the bill is the house bill, which nobody likes. the question, including a lot of people in the house. then senator mcconnell is going to offer a substitute, the first amendment, and is that going to be repeal or repeal and replace? >> i think, ultimately, that's a judgment senator mcconnell will make at some point this week before the vote. depending on how these discussion go. if we can reach agreement among republicans about the senate bill -- and my own view is, and i'm speaking for myself, i hope we do. because i think the senate bill does strike the right balance. but one way or the other, we need to get on the bill in order to have that debate. and the leader will make that decision at some point about whether that's repeal, repeal and replace. i hope it's repeal and replace.
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but whether, which camp you're in you can't have a debate about either unless we get on the bill. we need a yes vote. that's the only way to change the status quo. chris: senator cardin, this got even more complicated on friday when the senate parliamentarian said that some measures in the mcconnell bill, the bill that the senate majority leader is offering, are outside senate rules and may be out of order. so where does that leave this whole thing? >> well, if we go on the bill, if the republicans have the votes to move on the bill, 22 million to 33 million americans are at risk of losing their insurance coverage. all americans are at risk of losing quality insurance coverage. so if if we get on this bill, we're under what's called reconciliation, and many of the amendments will not be in order because they have to deal directly with the fiscal issues because it's reconciliation.
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so we don't have an open process if we get on bill. we have a very narrow opportunity to really change this bill. chris: senator thune, president trump -- and you were at that meeting in this week in the white house -- told republican senators that you've all talked tough when president obama was in the white house, but things have changed. here it is. >> for seven years you had an easy route, we'll repeal, we'll replace. and he's never going to sign it. but i'm signing it. so it's a little bit different. chris: senator thune, if republicans block the bill this week, either don't vote to the begin the debate or given the debate and then go against whatever is on the floor, is that the end of repeal and replace? >> it's not. but it is a vote, i think, for the status quo. what will happen if and when that will to to -- that were to occur, we'll go back to the drawing board.
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the question is not a question of if, it's a question of when. my argument, chris, is that we need to do it sooner rather than later which is the argument that the president made because this thing is spiraling out of control. obamacare is in a death spiral. you have seen, since 2013, premiums in this country in the individual marketplace have more than doubled. you've got markets that are in a freefall, in a collapse. and something has to be done sooner. and i think that's why we need to get on the bill and start this debate. and then if people want to amend it, it is an open amendment process. there'll be unlimited amendments that can be offered, and the united states senate will have an opportunity to work its will. but that can't happen, we can't change the status quo unless we get on the bill. and i think we have a responsibility and a duty to the american people that we committed and promised that we would repeal and replace obamacare with something that's better. and so they need to hold us accountable, and i think the sooner we get on the bill and debating these issues, the more quickly we'll get a result which takes us in a better direction with lower premiums and stable
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markets and liberating people from all these mandates and regulations and taxes that they have in obamacare today. chris: finally, gentlemen, and we've only got a couple of minutes left. senator cardin, as i mentioned before, there are a lot of other things that are stacking up to basically keep the government running. you've got to pass a budget. the government runs out of money on october 1st. you've got to raise the debt limit, at a certain point we reach that barrier. what are the chances that we are going to be able to avoid a train wreck this fall? >> well, if you want me -- i'll take that, chris -- chris: wait, no, i'm asking senator cardin -- >> well, there's a better way to move forward -- there's a better way to move forward. in response to senator thune, if democrats and republicans work together, we can get things done. senator alexander, the republican chairman of the health committee, says he'll schedule hearings. we had no hearings on the health
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care bill that the republicans are considering. let's work together. we've worked together on on the fy-17 budget. we want to improve the affordable care act, not repeal it, and there are ways we can do that by bringing down overall health care costs and making particularly in the individual marketplace health insurance more affordable. on the budget issues, we have members of the authorizing committees on both the democratic and republican side, the environmental public works committee we'll be passing out some authorization bills that deal with the budget. we need to deal with a realistic budget for fy-18 that reflects the progress we made in fy-17 working together. if we do that, it's going to be in the best interests of the american people. we can improve the health care system, we can get a reasonable budget and move this country forward. chris: gentlemen, we're going of to close on that optimistic note. thank you both. thanks for coming in today. >> thanks, chris. chris: always good to talk with you, gentlemen. up next, we'll bring back
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the panel to handicap where senate republicans can revive repeal and replace or whether it's time to move on. plus, what would you like to ask the panel about the white house shake-up and what it says about the trump presidency six months in? just go to twitter and we may use your question on the air,@fox news sunday. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car?
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>> let obamacare fail, it'll be a lot easier. and i think we're probably in that position where we'll just let obamacare fail. we're not going to own it. chris: president trump, who took a number of different positions on obamacare this week -- repeal, repeal and replace, and as you saw there, just let the whole thing collapse. and we're back now with the panel. so, julie, what do they really think at the white house? [laughter] do they think repeal and replace is dead, or do they somehow
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think at the last moment faced with a vote that some of these senators will vote for it? >> kind of depends what day you ask them that question. there have been some days where they can't exactly see how they're going to get back, particularly with senator mccain being out. that's a crucial vote for this. they plan to spend the next couple of days trying to see if repeal and replace could get the votes, if repeal only could get the votes. republicans mixed the messages, the constant shifting from the president, sometimes within the same day, is hugely unhelpful because republicans also want to move forward. they want to put a bill on his desk and have that bill signed, but it's really unclear day-to-day what bill the president actually wants to sign. chris: we asked you for questions for the panel, and f.d. tweeted this: could donald trump have done more to dig into health care legislative process? was there a lack of presidential effort involvement? congressman chaffetz, you know, i looked into this.
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the president has not made, since he took office, a single major speech that was really devoted to repeal and replace. and say what you will about obamacare, and i know you've got a lot ofs with it, but -- lot of problems with us, but president obama barnstormed the country at least pushing it. so the question is, how do you answer f.d.? >> use the power of air force one, get out to the country, make the speeches. i think at this point the white house communication is let's just have something. we need some sort of victory. it's sort of like al davis from the oakland raiders, just win, baby. just put something up on the board. and now that they're playing with live ammunition, you've got a lot of republicans that are getting squishy. it's ultimately the responsibility of the senate. here's a motion to proceed. it's a motion to are we going to have a debate from what is supposed to be the most deliberative body on the face of the planet, and we can't even get republicans to debate the bill. chris: so what do you think is the impact of that if they won't even go, and at this point they
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do not have the 50 votes plus the vice president pence to break the tie to even begin debate. >> that's what's so frustrating. i think if you go to the heartland, that's what people are most concerned about. you won't even have the debate, let a alone the vote. it may fail, but at least have the debate. that's the first question that'll come up this week. chris: we had some shocking news this week. senator john mccain, we learned, has an aggressive malignant form of brain cancer. here was mccain's best friend in the senate, lindsey graham. >> i can't think of anything i've done since 1999 politically, in many ways personally, that was worth doing without john. i just ask god for one thing, that he has a voice and that he can use it as long as possible. chris: juan, this has both personal and political resonance here in washington, doesn't it? >> it has tremendous resonance here in washington. i think, i think our prayers, i think everybody's prayers are with john, senator mccain and
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his family. i just want to say a special expression to meghan, mccain, our fox colleague, you know, to her and her dad, much love, much respect. mccain has a special place in washington, chris, because he's in a time of polarized politics that we live in, he's able to operate across party lines. you think to mccain-feingold, for example, on finance reform, you think of mccain-kennedy on immigration reform, you think of his efforts going overseas tirelessly, traveling to places in the midst of war to say this is the american policy. i want to know what's going on on the ground. and he takes people who are politically opposite like elizabeth warren with him to show them what is actually taking place on the ground. so he operates in a way that i think gives him some special cache, if you will, because everybody wants to talk to him, everybody embraces him. and i would add given his status as a military hero, there's no one like him in that sense in
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this generation. you think about the idea that he stayed in a prison camp and said i'm not leaving despite the stature of my father and grandfather, i'm not leaving til my men -- chris: and north vietnamese gave him, said we'll let you go because your father's an admiral. >> right. so at that moment you say, wow, there's a man of character, there's a guy who you want standing up. and if you want to talk about, you know, i is often hear republicans say somebody is a patriot. like, oh, he's one of us. you know what? there's a real patriot right here, john mccain. chris: gillian, as a member of the national security council staff for both bush 43 and obama, how big a player is john mccain when it comes to national security issues? >> he is everything. you know, as a person, i messaged meghan the other day when this became public, and i said your dad is truly an american national treasure. we don't have many of them in this country, but he's one of them. the potential loss of his service in the senate -- whether he steps aside tomorrow or years
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from now -- chris: we should say he says -- >> he says -- chris: and if anybody can pull it off, he says i'm coming back. >> and i hope he does. but the loss of his senate service, whenever it comes, whenever he steps aside constitutes a national security crisis for the gop. but by extension, for the country in the sense that this is a person who has been the primary voice on national security issues for a decade. this is somebody who explains the isis threat to us starting in 2014 when they first emerged on the scene. he has explained the threat posed by our nuclear adversaries around the world. and i don't see on the republican side, i don't see any current leaders who rival him, and i don't see the next generation of leaders who are going to have that same, you know, have that same voice on these issues. so it's a real worry. chris: i want to pick up on that with you, congressman chaffetz. both with barack obama and with donald trump there has been this
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talk about kind of pulling back, rolling up our engagement with the rest of the world. and john mccain is one of the few voices out there in either party talking about the kind of reagan-esque, aggressive, dominant engagement with the rest of the world. >> his heart and soul is with the united states of america. he's a warrior, a true patriot in every way, he's uniquely american, and i think he wants to help lead the charge. he doesn't want to sit back, he wants to take the fight to the enemy, and he'll do that every step of the way. his fight with cancer touches all of us. all of us have some relative or some friend that's fighting cancer, and god bless him. wish him nothing but the best. chris: well, very good, strong sentiments. i have to say, it's not a good sunday without john mccain on one of sunday shows -- [laughter] he loves to do it. senator, if you're watching, congresswoman on back and get -- come on back and seat get into n argument with me, because we've gotten into plenty. [laughter]
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thank you, panel. our power player of the week, up next. she calls
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>> the job description cannot be more daunting. to maintain a universal collection of human knowledge. as we asked last fall, who would take on that assignment? here is our power player of the week. >> i'm smiling because for a library, this is the ultimate library. >> me carla hayden, the librarian of congress. she's in charge of 162 million items. the world's biggest collection of books.
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they have books, movies, maps and music and it keeps getting better. >> 15000 items come into the library of congress and 12000 of those items are actually added to the collection every day. >> so help me god. >> so, god. >> hayden is the 14th librarian of congress since 18 oh two. she is the first professional librarian. each librarian of congress has had a different background. there have been lawyers, scholars, authors, politicians. >> of course a couple of other things that are part. >> you are the first woman, you're the first african-american, what is that me too? >> there certain professions that have a preponderance of females. being a woman at the helm of the world's largest library is very significant. african-american in a role that symbolizes knowledge and scholarship and information is
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also very empowering. >> the library's original mission was to be the research are for congress which is still one of its roles. >> there is a tunnel that allows members and their staff and the library staff to go back and forth. >> it's been called the most painful public space in america. built in 1897 for $7 million which was under budget and ahead of schedule. but, there is criticism the library has not kept up with the times and putting its collection online. hayden means to change that. >> in her own handwriting she says i have been pushed around all my life and felt at this moment that i cannot take it anymore. >> she showed us the handwritten notes of rosa parks when she refused to go to the back of the bus. now the parks collection has been digitized. >> imagine a child or person looking at this, having a sense of history read her here. >> fell love with reading as her
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little girl. >> i would reduce cereal box or anything. >> when she discovered libraries. >> libraries are the original treasure chest. you never know what you'll find. >> hayden was the head of the baltimore library system or in the 2015 rights. she was determined to keep the library open in the midst of the unrest. >> there is no other place open and we were that life center for that community. >> carla hayden says libraries are opportunity centers where people can advance themselves. she calls librarians the original search engines. >> you have a person who has a lifetime of getting lost in books and libraries and bookstores, to be the head of the world's largest library,
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that is pretty exciting. >> as part a hayden's digital initiative in may, the library of congress made 25 million pieces from its collection available for the public to download. it is all free. that's it for today, have a great week. we'll see you next fox news sunday. howie: sean spicer stepping down as press secretary in a white house shakeup and the president brings in anthony scaramucci. >> the cameras are back. can you commit to allowing cameras. >> i need a lot of hair and makeup, maybe. howie: can he change the hostile relationship between the president and the press? donald trump going after his own attorney general for bowing out of the russia probe and doing it


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